Pensees: Poor Timing for This Quote

You are being harsh on NBBC.

The statement is true.

Nah. Just humored. I’m sure a secretary or somebody just picked it out of a list of quotes. But, the timing is funny.

And, by the way, have you ever read Finney’s Systematic Theology? It was my first theology book. Frankly, I wonder if Finney meant what we think he means. But that’s another discussion.

Actually have never read Finney but I know enough about him to not wish too. (I’m a Calvinist)

I read Finney’s Systematic Theology when I was 18. I decided then that I wasn’t a fan. Horrible.

Just last night I preached from Acts 9 on the conversion of Saul of Tarsus. I’m preaching through Acts presently. Several minutes was spent showing the difference between how the Scriptures teach conversion and what the modern understanding is among the majority of professing Christians. I blamed Finney quite fiercely for his part in bringing on much of the decisionism of the last 100 or so years.

I did not read Finney until graduate school - and quickly recognized him as one of the sources of a great deal of my spiritual confusion in junior high and high school.

That said, I’m sure this was a random pick by a secretary. I’m sure that NBBC’s faculty would not endorse such a quote. However, it does challenge us to seek to be as biblical as possible in everything we do.

As a Northland alumnus who is very appreciative of God’s use of that institution in my life, I have to disagree with the statement by Coach C “I’m sure that NBBC’s faculty would not endorse such a quote.” One thing that always discouraged me as a student was the lack of discernment in allowing Finney-minded speakers in our chapel and campus church. We were at times subjected to really, really bad theology because the speaker was important for reasons unknown to us as students. If there is one area in which I think Northland could grow, and hopefully they have grown since I was a student, it would be to exercise more caution in what theology they endorse as a school, however connected or beloved the speaker or writer may be to fundamental circles.

“endorse such a quote”?
i have way more a problem with the quotED than the quote itself. interesting. i would have to say that seems to be one of finney’s lesser-evil utterings. if you’re going to cite finney at all, cite something like this by all means. it’s certainly preferable.

Seems like someone from Northland could simply defuse these kind of issues with a simple post. I don’t think there would be any fallout if they would just say, “Yeah, that was pretty much a flub to send that quote out.” In fact, if they did, it would be a breath of fresh air.

What strikes me is how silent several schools are on blogs and message boards. I don’t think they need to jump in head first, but the silence is deafening. There is a fear that every word is parsed and “once you write it, it can’t be taken back” mentality. While words and ideas are scrutinized, I don’t think the solution of hiding your head in the sand is very helpful either.

Being a Northland alum I just wish they would say something sometimes.

Being someone who works at a college, I think that they would like to do all of their writing on their own web sites. I think because of the way posting and blogging is scrutinized, there is no blogging “upside” for Bible colleges. Fundamental colleges depend on a “constituency” and there is always someone in the “consituency” who will get upset at something. At MBBC, we have enough trouble dealing with complaints about our own website…much less someone representing the college on Sharper Iron or Pensees… Colleges like us exist to educate students, not to fight theological battles in public. This is better left to pastors like Bob Bixby. :)

I think the downside of not engaging with blogs is there is a great deal of teaching taking place in dorm rooms behind computer screens.

I was neck deep in “constituency” politics a little over a year ago with a conference I was involved in. Frankly, it makes me a bit nauseous when I think about all of that. I’m not saying that college presidents abandon discernment, but when “consituency” motivation takes over…who knows where you’ll end up.

I guess my complaint isn’t that all the reigning college presidents aren’t spending four hours a day blogging and commenting, but that they say virtually nothing. Meanwhile freshmen are sitting in their dorm room with their ear buds deep inside their heads listening to Joe Zichterman’s recruitment recording.

Aside: If we’re talking about “constituency”, we’re also talking about politics and marketing. After all, the reason not to be active on a blog is because of the fear of potential complaints and problems from that particular college’s market (constituency)—whatever you do, don’t tick ‘em off. If we’re going to go down that road then I for one think there would be great marketing value (an upside) for a college leader to take some leadership in the blogosphere.

True Shannon, but they also get to read you and your pastor. For all the flaws of the blogosphere, I think people, particularly young people, can at least recognize that what they’re hearing is real—not something that people are saying because it’s what they think they’re supposed to say.

It’s very democratic and very equalizing—very free market. They’re the difference between local churches and parachurch organizations—they don’t have to couch their beliefs in doctrinal least common denominators that the diverse constituencies can all accept, as Coach c has well said. And for all the accusations about lack of accountability, if you say something stupid, you’re going to hear about it.

Truth may be slow out of the gates, but it wins in the end.

Ben’s comment about truth being slow but sure is right on the money. The problem with blogs is that they allow someone to broadcast their “knee-jerk” reaction before all of the facts are in. Many of us, myself included, have paid consequences for letting our views be known too quickly in too large a forum.
I think Bible colleges such as NBBC and MBBC and others try not to lead in areas of theology. That is a role better left to the church. I think that Pastor Bixby and Pensees is a great union that allows a man of God in his role as a pastor to communicate truth. It is the modern day equivalent of printing sermons in the newspaper. Bible colleges are not charged with the job of being the pillar and ground of the truth. They have to reflect their constituency for the pragmatic reasons of recruiting students and cultivating donors.
I would like to see a great many things change in fundamentalism, but I am glad to see that, for the most part, the catalyst for change is not the Bible college. It is the domain of the church.

I understand the point that both you and Ben are making and I concur. I am 100% pro local church.

It’s always interesting to me what people ask first when they get to know you. “Where did you go to school”? Why is that so important? Because it’s a quick (and sloppy sometimes) way to get a sense of where that person is coming from. Colleges in many ways ARE leading in the way of theology because that is where we send our young people to get trained.

Clearly it’s up to the parent to be vigilant when deciding where to send their young person. But, when a college like Northland sends out a Finney quote, while insignificant all by itself, these things add up and make me legitimately wonder if I would send my child there.

I’m not sure it would be a knee-jerk reaction for Northland to simply say that was a goof. But, then again, maybe it wasn’t a goof?

Bible colleges…have to reflect their constituency for the pragmatic reasons of recruiting students and cultivating donors.

Yeah, I’ve seen this at work. ick.

I have changed my mind several times on this topic. I would like for schools like this to not be compelled to make so many decisions based on constituency, but on another hand, this scenario is a good thing because it keeps institutions, in some measure, accountable to local churches. If you look at the history of the many colleges and seminaries who have gradually compromised the gospel over the years, you see a strong correlation between endowment and compromise. As they became more and more endowed and less dependent on new donor cultivation and student tuition, they also moved farther and farther from the truth.
At the same time, I see a number of theological issues where I believe college Bible faculty are correct, the “constituency” is wrong, but under the current paradigm the Bible faculty have to keep their mouths shut… This is unfortunate, but there is a measure of restraint in this situation that is healthy.
I hope that you will never see a Finney quote from Maranatha, but… you never know…

Coach, it just struck me, but you’re breaking the rules ; )

Since you work at a Maranatha have you been given any guidelines as to your participation on blogs? If this had been Maranatha who had sent this out and this thread was going just the same, would you be able to participate? Would you be able to say that MBBC goofed?

Just curious.

Interesting questions… no comment. :)

I come down in the middle.

The issue is not blogs or commenting on blogs. It is probably wisest not to say anything. In fact, upon reflection, if I were NBBC I wouldn’t say a thing. Just roll on. Too much risk of getting bogged down in a petty argument or long explanations.

However, the larger issue is, in my mind, clarity and definition. Who are you?

While I did not personally agree with Dave Jaspers’ doctrine and philosophy, I think showed some leadership in that he sharpened MBBC’s definition and clarity. We all know where MBBC is on the fundamentalist landscape. Whether one likes their views or not, one can appreciate the fact that they are clearly defined as to who they are.

With NBBC no one knows. NBBC has always lacked clarity. One almost gets the impression that they are attempting to be a satellite campus of BJU. THe problem is the BJU is better at being BJU and BJU has for 70 said, essentially, “We are who we are. Deal with it.”

If a student comes to me and asks me about MBBC or BJU, I can basically define these places for them. If they ask me about NBBC, I have no clue. And, it would seem, neither does NBBC.