Pensees: His Favorite Song

Amen, Bob…well said…there is nothing better than a song bursting forth from a heart touched by the power of God’s grace!

Right on!

I appreciate the spirit of your post, and I don’t wish to start a “blog war.” I couldn’t help but wonder, though- isn’t it rather ironic to champion the cause of joyful and simple congregational singing by quoting the lyrics of celebrity-driven professionalized musician/entertainers?

Irony intended.

Actually, Brooklyn Tab had the leg up on this song long before PC&D. So, Greg, if you’re trying to get away from the celebs, you can try the members of Cymbala’s church…unless of course they’re celebs too.

By intending irony, I don’t mean to suggest that I don’t like the song - or even the way P, C & D sing it. I simply acknowledge the irony that the song is sung by the industry. I like the song in spite of its grammatical issues.

Sorry, guys- I’m out of the loop. Haven’t listened to either in years. My exposure to PC&D was limited to a concert at Cedarville when my (then) fianceé was a student back in the early 1990s. Wasn’t impressed then, either. Honestly, I haven’t heard the song (either rendition). I went to the PCD site to see if it was there, and found the songs that did play quite… distracting.

Like I said, I don’t wish to get in a “blog war.”

Greg,

Nothing to apologize for. I just wanted to quote somebody with out giving the ubiquitous disclaimer: “We really don’t endorse these people, but here is a great quote…”

I didn’t know that Cymbala’s church had the song first. I’m not sure that I wouldn’t still be shocking if I didn’t give any disclaimer for quoting music from his church as well.

Regrettably, I almost feel obliged to say a fact that I feel was irrelevant: I’m not fond of the group.

But. . .the song states my point well.

What’s amazing is that the Holy Spirit of God generates love and passion for our Lord in our hearts, which spills out in personal and corporate adoration, which is then acceptable by the Father. As God’s children, the Godhead allows us to be participants in the praise of Heaven - while at the same time being its source and end! And we gentlemen are included in that - That is amazing!!!! Bob, thanks for the note - It was exactly what my soul needed tonight!

Blessings on you my friends.

Joel

Bob,

You’re confusing me.

First, I fully resonated with your philosophy of redeemed, separated people worshipping from the heart through song in your post, but then you threw in lyrics from a CCM song and group I had never previously heard of to underscore the point. So I briefly educated myself by listening to a clip, and became more confused than before after hearing these fine words undermined by a banal, postmodern sound.

Then, Greg pointed out the obvious irony (i.e., contradiction) of the two, and you said that it was intended. Sooo…what is it: you intend to be self-contradictory? or you are trying to skewer celebrity-driven CCM that postures as legitimate worship by quoting their lyrics favorably (insert sound of head scratching here)?

Then, you indicated upon follow up that you have no need for disclaimers; but responsibilities to your flock, for whom you are responsible, and others you presumably are influencing via the web who may not really know you and everything you stand for, seem to make disclaimers rather necessary, especially if some of these are people of precious little wit such as I and cannot follow the nuanced irony of your posts. Despite such responsibilites for a servant of the Lord, you then conceded with regret (and a twisted arm), your disclaimer for the group.

So, where do you stand, and why do you do this, Rev. Bixby? Can you help me out here?

Joe,

I imagine Bob will take the time to answer you. If he does he will both clarify and respond more graciously than I probably would.

However, I’m not sure any answer will really help you Joe. I don’t think you really are confused. You might have a point that Bob could clarify here as a result of the valuable “back and forth” between friend Bob and friend Greg. However the following aspects of your post make me think there is more here, in this case, than mere confusion.

Let me illustrate:

Exhibit A - You start your message off explaining that to you the song in its setting is “banal and postmodern.”

Exhibit B - You then accuse Bob of viewing others here as “people of precious little wit.” (This is a good example of the danger of postmodern deconstructionalism in ones hermeneutic - You obviously are reading your on perspective of “reality” into Bob’s original text - Joe, this seems very neo-orthodox of you (ask Thomas - he’s the expert on this!) thus you, my friend, may be the real “postmodern” among us - Perhaps! - Hmmmmm)

Exhibit C - You end accusing Bob of admit to something because you’re twisting his arm? I can’t ever remember Bob saying anything because of “arm twisting.” Friend and Foe (and Bob has both in large quantities!) can certainly agree to this.

So Joe - Are you really curious? - or are you merely furious?! (Wow - I made a little rhyme!)

Joel

I’ve lost my liner notes but I wonder if Steve Pettit put a disclaimer on his CD, “If Eyes Could See” where they sing a song that PC&D popularized—”In Christ Alone.”

Bob, why did you feel compelled to add your disclaimer?

Here’s a t-shirt for those of you who want to save time from wasting on disclaimers:

http://www.cafepress.com/advancegraphics.24976711

Joe,

It does not follow that intended irony is self-contradictory. Irony often enforces the point. It is ironic that the CCM music of some of the most popular performers states my point so well. I doubt that you are as dim-witted as you say you are and I know that my readership is not so dim-witted that they missed the point. Whether the lyrics were undermined or not by what you call a “banal, postmodern sound” is actually irrelevant. I didn’t post the music. You asked, “you are trying to skewer celebrity-driven CCM that postures as legitimate worship by quoting their lyrics favorably (insert sound of head scratching here)?”

Uh. Yeaaaaah. That would be irony. Irony so blatant that even the most dim-witted of my readership would get it.

I haven’t yet been asked if I buy into PCD’s heresy (Sabellianism, Modalism, or Oneness, whatever you want to call it) because I quoted them favorably. A minimal amount of research would show what I really believe about the Trinity. I doubt that my readers are wondering if I’m in bed with Charismaticism now because of my quoting these Charismatic pastors. I really don’t need to make a disclaimer since most of my readers already know that my doctrinal views are best articulated in the 1689 Baptist Confession, something stated on our church website.

I get the feeling that my friend Greg was “watching my back” and pushed for an explanation. I’m pretty comfortable making people think outside of their comfort zones so I grudgingly yielded to what is probably better wisdom and offered up the self-preserving disclaimers that have become a part of fundamentalist survival. So I complain that Greg made me do it? That hardly indicates any confusion. I complain when my wife insists that I take my vitamins. What does it matter that I was reluctant to give any kind of disclaimer? What does it matter if “he twisted my arm”? As far as I can tell, he was content with my affirmation that irony was intended. I was reluctant to say that I don’t like the group because my point was not about their sabellianism, their charismaticism, their genre, or their personal character. My point was that there was a contemporary song in the fracas of the worship wars that stated my point of view. That’s pretty cool, I think.

Now, to increase the confusion: a confession. I flat out like the song, brother! And, worse, while I can’t abide most anything PCD has done, abhor their doctrine, and would never tolerate their style in my ministry, I like the way they sing that song. Maybe it’s wicked of me. Maybe it’s my flesh. But I think it is pretty neat that my flesh can enjoy something so uplifting to my spirit! It makes me nervous, though. That’s why I rarely splurge on a sneak-hearing. My wife would nail my hide to the wall, and I don’t want my daughter to get a taste for cheap music. So, there you go. Talk about confession!

Thanks for posting. Gotta go listen to Mozart. This month is the 250th anniversary of his birth, you know.

(BTW, I do NOT endorse Mozart’s adultery!)

Bob, Bob, Bob.

Count me among the dim-witted. Apparently you were quoting a “hostile witness,” but it wasn’t immediately clear to me, either. (What’s worse: having to explain a punchline, or not getting a punchline?)

I think disclaimers are usually a good thing, not so much for self-preservation, but to avoid being misunderstood. I also think my friend Bob gets a “rush” out of making people nervous and sometimes gains a hearing from the loud “MOO’s” of the sacred (or secular) cows he kicks. It reminds me of the old fundamentalist (who was that?) who said that the best way to start a church was to “start a fight” so people come running to watch? ;-)

(BTW, my posting at Pensees does not indicate my agreement with its author, though it often may, and sometimes does, but needn’t always, and occasionally won’t.)

Chris!

I thought I was your guru! And now you are telling me that you don’t endorse everything that I say???

You are right that sacred cows make the best hamburger (or whatever you said similar to that). And you are right that I enjoy hearing the moo. I am not being iconoclastic just for the sake of being iconoclastic though. I think defying paranoia is going to help us fundies grow up. We have bred a culture that easily misunderstands and is easily shaken by a positive use of anyone not of our ilk. We have bred non-thinking men-followers. Therefore, we assume that a quotation without a disclaimer is proof-positive of non-thinking following. I don’t give disclaimers when I quote Bob Jones, Sr.

Seriously, the need for disclaimers is over-rated.

Sadly, I could have quoted similar words by Mac Lynch which is, in my opinion, just as ironic, but it would have been missed by everybody. At least the PCD quote drew questions.

Chris, I’m starting my day depressed that I have lost my strong grip on an OBF pastor because of my stupid slip of the tongue!!!!! :-)

Have a good one, brother!

You’re depressed? Man, all this time I thought I was your guru.

Then YOU can take responsibility for my listening choices!

Bob,

I’m shocked by your naivety. Were you born yesterday or what? Gurus take responsibility only for successful followers. Thus, anything good you do is my fault; anything else is on you. It’s good to be a guru.

Joking aside, I share your passion for congregational worship, and I’m glad for good focus on corporate worship rather than “special” music, though when done well this, too, can lead the entire body in worship. (Notice my standard disclaimer intended to avoid misunderstanding.)

I’m reminded of Ephesians 5:18-19, a passage Joe preached on here last week. Our corporate worship is either “dead” or “conjured up” primarily because we aren’t filled with the Spirit. We don’t just need to fix our worship (song selection, service order, instrumentation, etc.); we need to yield to the influence of the Spirit in every part of life. And the first demonstration of such Spirit-filling that Scripture mentions? Worship (v. 19).

Interesting thought (from Joe, not me): the command to be filled with the Spirit appears to be given to the entire body (both imperatives in v. 18 are 2nd person plural), not just its individuals. Certainly a congregation can only be controlled by the Spirit as its individual components are, but it is an interesting focus. We’re striving for a Spirit-filled and worshipful church.

Had to relate a funny story. A few minutes ago I took a break from studying & checked out the website for PC&D based on Bob’s glowing recommendation. So the music (which Greg aptly described as “distracting”) is blasting through the office. Murphy’s Law: for the first time all day the office door opens. “Someone’s coming!” I clumsily lunge for the mouse to shut it down. (I know, I know: the fear of man is a snare…the wicked flee when no man pursueth…etc.) Anyway, it was just Joe, and he got a kick out of it. But I’m sure it didn’t look good, and it gave my heart a ridiculously strong jolt.

Thanks, Bob.

LOL. THAT made me laugh! Funny thing is that I have yet to see the PCD website. I ought to go there and check out what I have been “glowingly recommending!” Now you know why my wife would nail my hid to the wall.

Discouraging thing, though. My wife doesn’t like Mozart either. I made her read my entry today because I’m trying to convert her to Mozart.

Pastor,
The first time I read this posting days ago, I really enjoyed it because it brought to mind the joy that we experience at Morning Star each Lord’s Day in singing together. The enthusiastic congregational singing is one of my favorite parts of the service, something that I look forward to, something that I find sadly lacking when I’ve visited other churches. When I came back to this posting today, I was surprised by all the comments. So the post was again enjoyable—this time filled with humor. Personally, I was surprised that you’d even heard of PCD and was hoping that maybe your very discerning musical tastes had expanded to more CCM. Now, of course, my hopes have been dashed. (This last section is meant to be mildly ironic or sarcastic, lest anyone be confused by that.)
Karyn